Catfish_Man
Oct 28, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by springscansing
I don't know what this is supposed to be proving. People are concerned about the gap between the 970 and the P4. The P4 as it is right now kills an Itanium 2 in most things. ...the Itanium2 and POWER4 are roughly tied right now for fastest processor in the world. The P4 can beat the Itanium2's integer score, but it gets squished at floating point. Also, it can't do multi-processor systems (unless you count the much more expensive Xeon).
On topic:
The reason the Itanium is so much faster, at such a low clock frequency, has NOTHING to do with it being 64 bit. It's based on a completely different design philosophy than either PowerPC or x86 chips (PowerPC being RISC, x86 being modified CISC) called VLIW. This philosophy shifts almost all of the work of scheduling instructions and figuring out how to execute more than one instruction at once from the chip to the compiler. Theoretically this should result in small, ultra-high performance chips that require extremely sophisticated compilers (and have long compile times). In practice, the Itanium2 is fast through brute force. It's HUGE (mostly because of an enormous on chip cache, and an entire x86 core for 32 bit code), expensive, and power hungry. Yes, it's fast, but it's not that fast for its size/price. The PowerPC 970 is not in the same market as the Itanium (or its big brother, the POWER4). Its main competitors are going to be the Athlon64 (ClawHammer) in 1 and 2 processor systems, and the Opteron (SledgeHammer) in 4-8 way systems. From initial SPEC numbers it appears that the PowerPC 970 will be slightly lower performing (especially in integer code), but use much less power, have a lower pin count, a faster memory bus, and be smaller. The low power version of the 970 should be very suitable for laptops and 1U servers, which is likely going to be difficult for Hammers. Overall, a 1 processor 970 system will be competetive (and win handily at vector code), and a dual 970 system (or, even better, dual core) will be well ahead of the competition.
I don't know what this is supposed to be proving. People are concerned about the gap between the 970 and the P4. The P4 as it is right now kills an Itanium 2 in most things. ...the Itanium2 and POWER4 are roughly tied right now for fastest processor in the world. The P4 can beat the Itanium2's integer score, but it gets squished at floating point. Also, it can't do multi-processor systems (unless you count the much more expensive Xeon).
On topic:
The reason the Itanium is so much faster, at such a low clock frequency, has NOTHING to do with it being 64 bit. It's based on a completely different design philosophy than either PowerPC or x86 chips (PowerPC being RISC, x86 being modified CISC) called VLIW. This philosophy shifts almost all of the work of scheduling instructions and figuring out how to execute more than one instruction at once from the chip to the compiler. Theoretically this should result in small, ultra-high performance chips that require extremely sophisticated compilers (and have long compile times). In practice, the Itanium2 is fast through brute force. It's HUGE (mostly because of an enormous on chip cache, and an entire x86 core for 32 bit code), expensive, and power hungry. Yes, it's fast, but it's not that fast for its size/price. The PowerPC 970 is not in the same market as the Itanium (or its big brother, the POWER4). Its main competitors are going to be the Athlon64 (ClawHammer) in 1 and 2 processor systems, and the Opteron (SledgeHammer) in 4-8 way systems. From initial SPEC numbers it appears that the PowerPC 970 will be slightly lower performing (especially in integer code), but use much less power, have a lower pin count, a faster memory bus, and be smaller. The low power version of the 970 should be very suitable for laptops and 1U servers, which is likely going to be difficult for Hammers. Overall, a 1 processor 970 system will be competetive (and win handily at vector code), and a dual 970 system (or, even better, dual core) will be well ahead of the competition.
Dane D.
Jun 16, 10:35 AM
My 867 mhz G4 PB takes 15 hours to crunch a unit....I thought that was decent, but if your 450mhz G4's are crunching a unit at 12-14 hrs that would make my PB really slow. huh. And yes, I have it at maximum processor.
Those 2 G4/450's run SETI in blank screen mode and do nothing else that is why they can complete units faster.
Those 2 G4/450's run SETI in blank screen mode and do nothing else that is why they can complete units faster.
nixd2001
Oct 16, 06:20 PM
What to do with more than 32 bits of address space? Hmm, the first thing to note is the difference between the size of an address space and how much memory you physically have in your machine. The BSD family (and others?) hve for a while offered the ability to "memory map files". This is an area where more than 32 bits of address space is relevant, but without needing more than 4GB of memory. Let me explain more....
The traditional approach to manipulating files is to have a "current file pointer" (or offset from the start of the file) and to perform read or write operations from this pointer to memory buffers dynamically allocated to hold data. The change to memory mapped files proposes a significantly different approach to accessing the contents of a file. In essence, using a memory mapped file involves asking the OS to provide a region (PTR) of memory that corresponds to the file. Reading (PTR+N) in memory reads byte N from the file. Writing (PTR+N) in memory writes byte N in the file. Under this model, leaping all over the file is easy, directly mapping byte sequences in the file to accessiblle data stuctures is easy and all the dynamic memory allocation within the application is eliminated - this is changed to the OS making the decision of what (how much) memory is used to cache file contents. Not only is this generally more efficient, it makes it practical to easily manipulate files over 4GB without any effort.
So i think the first real use of a 64 bit processor is not being able to put more than 4GB of memory in the machine - rather, it is the easy ability to efficiently work with very large files (think raw video files, for example). This may not be immediatelly useful to all Mac users, but for the creative video community, this will provide a range of enhanced software over time.
There are also other more esoteric applications of such large address spaces. For example, the 64 bits of address can represent 40 bits of address and 24 bits of "tag type" indicating what sort of data is contained at that address. For polymorphic interpreted languages, this can provided major improvements - although esoteric as I said.
A single DVD side/layer is about 4.7GB. A DVD can be double side and double layered, giving 4x4.7GB. A 64 bit address space means there is nothing alarming about this quantity of data. A 32 bit address space requires massive fudges to handle such quanitites of data.
The traditional approach to manipulating files is to have a "current file pointer" (or offset from the start of the file) and to perform read or write operations from this pointer to memory buffers dynamically allocated to hold data. The change to memory mapped files proposes a significantly different approach to accessing the contents of a file. In essence, using a memory mapped file involves asking the OS to provide a region (PTR) of memory that corresponds to the file. Reading (PTR+N) in memory reads byte N from the file. Writing (PTR+N) in memory writes byte N in the file. Under this model, leaping all over the file is easy, directly mapping byte sequences in the file to accessiblle data stuctures is easy and all the dynamic memory allocation within the application is eliminated - this is changed to the OS making the decision of what (how much) memory is used to cache file contents. Not only is this generally more efficient, it makes it practical to easily manipulate files over 4GB without any effort.
So i think the first real use of a 64 bit processor is not being able to put more than 4GB of memory in the machine - rather, it is the easy ability to efficiently work with very large files (think raw video files, for example). This may not be immediatelly useful to all Mac users, but for the creative video community, this will provide a range of enhanced software over time.
There are also other more esoteric applications of such large address spaces. For example, the 64 bits of address can represent 40 bits of address and 24 bits of "tag type" indicating what sort of data is contained at that address. For polymorphic interpreted languages, this can provided major improvements - although esoteric as I said.
A single DVD side/layer is about 4.7GB. A DVD can be double side and double layered, giving 4x4.7GB. A 64 bit address space means there is nothing alarming about this quantity of data. A 32 bit address space requires massive fudges to handle such quanitites of data.
pcypert
Mar 17, 01:06 AM
It's still pretty vague. You don't know what happens or how...the ending is actually pretty lame in all actuality. If you had the sound down you wouldn't ever hear anything. So if you are going to play and beat it and Shin...keep your sound up and don't turn it right off :)...but not a major ending by even the lightest standards...actually since it took me so little time to beat it I really thought there was a little twist and the game would continue...kind of bummed when I realized it was over and there were NO MORE bad guys on the streets.
Paul
Paul
Chisholm
Sep 17, 06:58 PM
I would hope Steve would throw that thing at whatever moron engineer/ designer showed it to him!:D
I went to Radio Shack the other night and the store manager was tripping over himself to show me a new Sprint phone with *gasp* a color screen. I told him I was waiting for an OSX enabled phone from Apple. He said, "but we have a completely digital system built from the ground up."
uh, ok...
I went to Radio Shack the other night and the store manager was tripping over himself to show me a new Sprint phone with *gasp* a color screen. I told him I was waiting for an OSX enabled phone from Apple. He said, "but we have a completely digital system built from the ground up."
uh, ok...
ddtlm
Oct 12, 06:56 PM
nixd2001:
The flags don't do anything to my x86 results either. This loop is just hard to optimize. I did manual unrolling, replaced mults with adds (which we can actually do safely since the float values in the loop controlls are not factions), and even replaced one of the loop counters with an int in conjuntion with the other two above (in such a way that I needed no typecaseing)... and the resukts inproved maybe 5% on the Mac and none on the PC.
The flags don't do anything to my x86 results either. This loop is just hard to optimize. I did manual unrolling, replaced mults with adds (which we can actually do safely since the float values in the loop controlls are not factions), and even replaced one of the loop counters with an int in conjuntion with the other two above (in such a way that I needed no typecaseing)... and the resukts inproved maybe 5% on the Mac and none on the PC.
sikkinixx
Mar 21, 09:47 PM
I posted it #2 :confused: :confused:
Mammoth
Apr 19, 11:06 PM
I'm sure there was a drunken celebration inside :p
I think I might have missed it :rolleyes:
I think I might have missed it :rolleyes:
Krizoitz
Jan 27, 12:02 PM
Can anyone point me to where the membership level numbers are spelled out. I've been trying to find the information but haven't had any luck. Thanks
sikkinixx
Mar 23, 08:00 PM
Oh, it gets worse :D from memory-
Hey Mickey (original, forgot who sang it)
Chumbawamba - Le Tubthumping (french!)
F-Zero GX- Mute City
The Proclaimers - I would walk 500 miles (I liked it BEFORE Red Nose :p )
Yello - The Race and Oh yea
Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire and Uptown Girl
Scooter - Level One (Turrican remix :eek: nice one Scooter)
David Hasselhoff - Jump in my Car
Toto something - I eat Cannibals
dude....that is causing me some physical pain just reading that horrible list of songs, I'm sorry but..ow... :o
Hey Mickey (original, forgot who sang it)
Chumbawamba - Le Tubthumping (french!)
F-Zero GX- Mute City
The Proclaimers - I would walk 500 miles (I liked it BEFORE Red Nose :p )
Yello - The Race and Oh yea
Billy Joel - We Didn't Start the Fire and Uptown Girl
Scooter - Level One (Turrican remix :eek: nice one Scooter)
David Hasselhoff - Jump in my Car
Toto something - I eat Cannibals
dude....that is causing me some physical pain just reading that horrible list of songs, I'm sorry but..ow... :o
mkrishnan
Nov 9, 07:14 PM
I missed mod/it/xm tracking on my amiga/pc ...
Did you ever use Med to make mods on the Amiga? Ahhhh, good times.... :rolleyes:
Did you ever use Med to make mods on the Amiga? Ahhhh, good times.... :rolleyes:
TyleRomeo
Aug 26, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by MacBandit
Yes it will work with a 4x, 6x, or 8x AGP. Also from what I've seen at least with this card and the other current ones there will be no speed benefits to 6x or 8x AGP because they don't use that much bandwith.
Well then it seems like the ATI 9700 is the best choice for anyone who wants the most powerful card on the market and wants to use it in the future with an 8X AGP MAC. Anyone know on the release day of the new 9700? I'm going to do some research and see if i can find some comparisons between the 9700 and the Nvidia Geforce4 Ti
Yes it will work with a 4x, 6x, or 8x AGP. Also from what I've seen at least with this card and the other current ones there will be no speed benefits to 6x or 8x AGP because they don't use that much bandwith.
Well then it seems like the ATI 9700 is the best choice for anyone who wants the most powerful card on the market and wants to use it in the future with an 8X AGP MAC. Anyone know on the release day of the new 9700? I'm going to do some research and see if i can find some comparisons between the 9700 and the Nvidia Geforce4 Ti
Multimedia
Oct 10, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Backtothemac
General Cybernetics is in Alabama ;)
My bad. I corrected my error in the original mis-post. Thanks for pointing that out. I always like to tell everyone where the best deal REALLY is.
General Cybernetics is in Alabama ;)
My bad. I corrected my error in the original mis-post. Thanks for pointing that out. I always like to tell everyone where the best deal REALLY is.
cyberdogl2
Jun 5, 04:44 PM
it's more interesting than hilarious
giovanni
Oct 14, 08:50 AM
It is on Bloomberg news: Apple will use IBM's processors that are being introduced today (reported by AP). It is not clear yet which Apple products will use the IBM PowerPC 970. It is a 64-bit (32-bit compatible).
However, there is no official word from either IBM or Apple.
Well, I feel pretty sure now about this move and very happy because I really think it sounds wise on Apple's part (of course, what do I know) - just my impression.
However, there is no official word from either IBM or Apple.
Well, I feel pretty sure now about this move and very happy because I really think it sounds wise on Apple's part (of course, what do I know) - just my impression.
ffakr
Aug 31, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by FattyMembrane
Naruto Shippu
wallpaper naruto akatsuki.
wallpaper naruto akatsuki.
macridah
Jan 21, 03:12 PM
This is why apple had to step up and start making their own applications. I have no doubt that apple is working on a spreadsheet app. Hopefully the package keynote, pages, (new spreadsheet app), and filemaker.
One thing that would be missing is a answer to entourage .... Maybe apple could combine mail, ical, addressbook into one app.
One thing that would be missing is a answer to entourage .... Maybe apple could combine mail, ical, addressbook into one app.
esaleris
Mar 29, 10:52 AM
This is, by far, one of the most intersting posts I've ever read. Particularly when you discovered they started connecting to your network! Can't wait to hear what happened, as well as who stole the thing.
RugoseCone
Sep 3, 10:13 PM
This happened to me once about a year and a half ago. It took several days but the points finally posted.
The best explanation was offered up by bousozoku...
"Some work units take longer than others due to duplicates and slow processing but it's usually about the receiving server being too busy to handle all the work."
The best explanation was offered up by bousozoku...
"Some work units take longer than others due to duplicates and slow processing but it's usually about the receiving server being too busy to handle all the work."
mr evil brkfast
Oct 7, 01:20 PM
Prices were lowered when the new powermacs were introduced in August by $100. The CD/RW and Combo models were at their original prices and the superdrive 15" was now $100 cheaper than its original price.
MukelG
May 2, 03:58 PM
Wow I've never see that before. I'm gonna have to check into that.
Yep, do you guys have a campus store? If they sell macs there, you might see your campus rep sitting outside of the campus store with a table setup with their equipment and a black tablecloth with a white apple logo on it
Hell, we dont even have a campus store where i go and i see the kid at a table all over campus. did you guys get ipod magnets? ours was handing them out
Yep, do you guys have a campus store? If they sell macs there, you might see your campus rep sitting outside of the campus store with a table setup with their equipment and a black tablecloth with a white apple logo on it
Hell, we dont even have a campus store where i go and i see the kid at a table all over campus. did you guys get ipod magnets? ours was handing them out
Rickay726
May 31, 04:46 PM
i no rite its perfect, me being 15 it is where all my friends hang out, and i would get to share my mac knowledge with manypeople and gget paid good!
liketom
Jan 4, 05:40 AM
I'll brew some coffee. Anyone want some?
sure make mine white with 2 please
sure make mine white with 2 please
iGav
Sep 20, 02:34 AM
Doctor Q I really wouldn't worry about the Dual 1.25 being obsolete anytime soon.....
There are far too many people that have hard on's for the latest and greatest...... and listening to them you'd believe that the current Mac's are good for nothing other than maybe emailing....... *and generally statistically these people have a G4 450.... ha ha*
*total envy though* that Dual 1.25 puppy you have must be like a rocket...... And it will last you years, exactly like what Duke said.......
Don't forget to post some thoughts etc on spped, smoothness and that multiple fan start up sequence..... :)
There are far too many people that have hard on's for the latest and greatest...... and listening to them you'd believe that the current Mac's are good for nothing other than maybe emailing....... *and generally statistically these people have a G4 450.... ha ha*
*total envy though* that Dual 1.25 puppy you have must be like a rocket...... And it will last you years, exactly like what Duke said.......
Don't forget to post some thoughts etc on spped, smoothness and that multiple fan start up sequence..... :)
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