Frobozz
Mar 25, 09:40 AM
Nop... consider.
2x CPUs 130W rated. So thats 260W, right there. However, no CPU consumes the rated, so it's give or take ~260W.
Each 5770 is ~108W, given two, that's ~216 W. Right off the bat we have ~476 W being consumed. Not bad; however let's look at the side where its not a dual 5770 setup.
The PSU on the Mac Pro is rated for 980 W of power, but for simplicity sake let's say 1 kW. Now, factor in the Super drive, Ethernet, Airport, at least 1 HDD and peripheral docks/cards you are looking at ~100 W. Take into account a 20 W per 1GB of memory (assume 6GB) and you've got ~120 W more. So far ~ 220 W more.
Now we have ~480 W [~260W + ~220W]consumption leaving only ~520 W left for a GPU. Currently, the HD 6970 requires 2x 8-pin connectors to provide 150 W per pin. That's 300W right off. So we are left with ~220 W in the system. Now, factor in that PCIe slot power draw at 75 W and we've got a ~145 W left over. ~145 W is cutting it too close and something will yield (yes I do realize 145 W is a lot more, but read on). Now, the sad part, we were assuming 1kW PSU which is not the case; it's 980 W meaning there will be less power, ~125 W. Now, also take into consideration no PSU is 100% efficient, hence there will be greater power outlet draw and the PSU will be operating at high voltage/amps and its life span will decrease dramatically over very high usage.
In other words the current PSU may come up short. Add to that the fact that all current shipping and past model Mac Pros don't have extra dual 8-pin connectors. They have dual 6-pins. There is an adapter to make a 6-pin into an 8-pin, but it is risky at best, big no-no.
So as you can see an HD 6970 would be barely supported on current models. Future models? Perhaps yes assuming Apple bumps to 1.1kW or 1.2kW PSU.
Take into account this was calculated assuming 6GB of memory and 1 HDD, anymore RAM (20 W/1GB) or HDDs (10W/disc) and the consumption will go up. Also, assuming nothing is hooked up to peripheral ports; like a small external drive that draws 5-10 W.
I have an 850 watt PSU in my gaming rig with a 4870x2 and custom coolers all around on the CPU, GPU, and case. I think your calculations are pretty close to correct if you wanted to run everything in the case at once. But that's not typical to run everything at max all at once. I suppose Apple might not want to get in the business of telling people it's okay to buy this honking huge GPU as long as you're not running a lot of extra hard drives and extra PCI-E cards.
But, for people looking to simply drop in a fast GPU and not have a lot of extra bells and whistles (read: a gaming rig), they would be fine with 850 watts or so, even with a 6970. Or at least damn close.
The tricky part with GPU's is that the high end units commonly exceed rated specifications at max load, so these calculations are tricky. And your point about running too close to your max is also a good one. It's fair to say that when you add up all your max dissipation, add 20% or so, and that's the wattage your PSU needs.
2x CPUs 130W rated. So thats 260W, right there. However, no CPU consumes the rated, so it's give or take ~260W.
Each 5770 is ~108W, given two, that's ~216 W. Right off the bat we have ~476 W being consumed. Not bad; however let's look at the side where its not a dual 5770 setup.
The PSU on the Mac Pro is rated for 980 W of power, but for simplicity sake let's say 1 kW. Now, factor in the Super drive, Ethernet, Airport, at least 1 HDD and peripheral docks/cards you are looking at ~100 W. Take into account a 20 W per 1GB of memory (assume 6GB) and you've got ~120 W more. So far ~ 220 W more.
Now we have ~480 W [~260W + ~220W]consumption leaving only ~520 W left for a GPU. Currently, the HD 6970 requires 2x 8-pin connectors to provide 150 W per pin. That's 300W right off. So we are left with ~220 W in the system. Now, factor in that PCIe slot power draw at 75 W and we've got a ~145 W left over. ~145 W is cutting it too close and something will yield (yes I do realize 145 W is a lot more, but read on). Now, the sad part, we were assuming 1kW PSU which is not the case; it's 980 W meaning there will be less power, ~125 W. Now, also take into consideration no PSU is 100% efficient, hence there will be greater power outlet draw and the PSU will be operating at high voltage/amps and its life span will decrease dramatically over very high usage.
In other words the current PSU may come up short. Add to that the fact that all current shipping and past model Mac Pros don't have extra dual 8-pin connectors. They have dual 6-pins. There is an adapter to make a 6-pin into an 8-pin, but it is risky at best, big no-no.
So as you can see an HD 6970 would be barely supported on current models. Future models? Perhaps yes assuming Apple bumps to 1.1kW or 1.2kW PSU.
Take into account this was calculated assuming 6GB of memory and 1 HDD, anymore RAM (20 W/1GB) or HDDs (10W/disc) and the consumption will go up. Also, assuming nothing is hooked up to peripheral ports; like a small external drive that draws 5-10 W.
I have an 850 watt PSU in my gaming rig with a 4870x2 and custom coolers all around on the CPU, GPU, and case. I think your calculations are pretty close to correct if you wanted to run everything in the case at once. But that's not typical to run everything at max all at once. I suppose Apple might not want to get in the business of telling people it's okay to buy this honking huge GPU as long as you're not running a lot of extra hard drives and extra PCI-E cards.
But, for people looking to simply drop in a fast GPU and not have a lot of extra bells and whistles (read: a gaming rig), they would be fine with 850 watts or so, even with a 6970. Or at least damn close.
The tricky part with GPU's is that the high end units commonly exceed rated specifications at max load, so these calculations are tricky. And your point about running too close to your max is also a good one. It's fair to say that when you add up all your max dissipation, add 20% or so, and that's the wattage your PSU needs.
Built
Apr 2, 10:08 PM
Apparently "virtually every" doesn't mean what you think it means.
Those who don't see the light bleed are simply in denial. It is a known problem affecting this version of the iPad. If you took a few minutes to read the iPad forum, you'd know that.
Those who don't see the light bleed are simply in denial. It is a known problem affecting this version of the iPad. If you took a few minutes to read the iPad forum, you'd know that.
DesignDJ
Oct 23, 08:50 AM
This news just in....
"My infant son began to cry when I placed the MacBook Pro in my shopping cart this morning, this is a clear indication that the MBP could be updated as soon as this week. More news to follow..."
"My infant son began to cry when I placed the MacBook Pro in my shopping cart this morning, this is a clear indication that the MBP could be updated as soon as this week. More news to follow..."
zombierunner
Apr 20, 08:38 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_2 like Mac OS X; sv-se) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8H7 Safari/6533.18.5)
HDMI-in would be nice :-)
hell yea xbox 360 on imac in 1080p ... kanex xd and similar can only do 720p atm . need 1080p target display mode support
HDMI-in would be nice :-)
hell yea xbox 360 on imac in 1080p ... kanex xd and similar can only do 720p atm . need 1080p target display mode support
Bonte
Nov 15, 08:34 AM
8-Core Mac Pro! :eek:
***drool*** :D :cool:
I'd love to see these test done in Vista, slower than XP i suspect. :cool:
***drool*** :D :cool:
I'd love to see these test done in Vista, slower than XP i suspect. :cool:
Mainyehc
Nov 28, 03:50 PM
I agree with almost everything you wrote (you're a pretty smart guy!) but offer two comments:
1 - We don't know there isn't a Jobs waiting in the wings. We also don't know there isn't a Jobs in the #2 spot at some Fortune 50 company who could be in a MS executive suite in 3 years.
2 - MS being "too proud" is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I write about not being able to predict the post-Bill future. He is certainly too proud but who knows about Bill 2.0?
You make the point about the rank-and-file being mostly very talented and I agree. If MS gets executives who stay out of the way who knows what Zune 3.0 will be like?
Why, thanks! English isn't even my native language... And I'm not a long-time Apple user either. But I suppose three years worth of using Macs and hangin' around MacRumors:Forums also helped, as did reading a lot (well, way too much, really) about the computer industry's history! :p
Your points are, of course, fairly good. But this is just a clear example of me playing the role of the "ominous wishful thinker", and you that of the "devil's advocate". So I surely hope I'm right in my predictions; even though I know competition is a good thing, arguing that competition from Microsoft could possibly be a "good" thing is nothing short of an oxymoron (I'm not saying that's your opinion. The problem is, if it's you who turns out to be right, that's what the Zune will become: competition! :p ). Let's hope that some worthy competitors, both on the cosumer electronics and the PC hardware/software/operating systems, OTHER than Microsoft emerge to give Apple some eventually needed "kicks in the butt", so they don't become lazy. ;)
'Course, if Microsoft could, hypothetically, stop being such an evil company, I'd certainly overlook their shady past and could even, Jobs forbid!, use some of their products (provided they'd be up to my typical Mac User's standards :rolleyes: ). :D
1 - We don't know there isn't a Jobs waiting in the wings. We also don't know there isn't a Jobs in the #2 spot at some Fortune 50 company who could be in a MS executive suite in 3 years.
2 - MS being "too proud" is exactly the kind of thing I mean when I write about not being able to predict the post-Bill future. He is certainly too proud but who knows about Bill 2.0?
You make the point about the rank-and-file being mostly very talented and I agree. If MS gets executives who stay out of the way who knows what Zune 3.0 will be like?
Why, thanks! English isn't even my native language... And I'm not a long-time Apple user either. But I suppose three years worth of using Macs and hangin' around MacRumors:Forums also helped, as did reading a lot (well, way too much, really) about the computer industry's history! :p
Your points are, of course, fairly good. But this is just a clear example of me playing the role of the "ominous wishful thinker", and you that of the "devil's advocate". So I surely hope I'm right in my predictions; even though I know competition is a good thing, arguing that competition from Microsoft could possibly be a "good" thing is nothing short of an oxymoron (I'm not saying that's your opinion. The problem is, if it's you who turns out to be right, that's what the Zune will become: competition! :p ). Let's hope that some worthy competitors, both on the cosumer electronics and the PC hardware/software/operating systems, OTHER than Microsoft emerge to give Apple some eventually needed "kicks in the butt", so they don't become lazy. ;)
'Course, if Microsoft could, hypothetically, stop being such an evil company, I'd certainly overlook their shady past and could even, Jobs forbid!, use some of their products (provided they'd be up to my typical Mac User's standards :rolleyes: ). :D
1984
Aug 29, 10:35 AM
Since they are pin compatible why not use a Core Duo in the entry-level model to get the price down to $499 and use Core 2 Duo in the remaining models? Let's keep in mind this is being reported by ThinkSecret which is about as reliable as MacOSRumors or O'Grady's PowerPage these days. When Appleinsider reports on it I'll start to worry.
islanders
Dec 28, 10:41 AM
SeaFox, So what you are saying its that:
�You're comparing apples to oranges now. A cable box is a tuner and a self-contained unit. As far as we know, iTV will not have a tuner. Its only known function at this time is to stream content from a Mac, so that makes iTV like a Slingbox, not a cableco DVR. And Slingboxes don't have hard drives.�
1) the iTV should is not and should not have a harddrive, or any kind of computer capabilities? You say I�m comparing apples to oranges when I said my cable box has a harddrive, assuming I don�t know what a tuner is, when I was just saying a harddive is not that big a deal. And if it doesn�t have one that will be less of a reason to buy one.
2) �The bandwidth problem has already been addressed.�
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Wallpapers de Carros Tunados
�You're comparing apples to oranges now. A cable box is a tuner and a self-contained unit. As far as we know, iTV will not have a tuner. Its only known function at this time is to stream content from a Mac, so that makes iTV like a Slingbox, not a cableco DVR. And Slingboxes don't have hard drives.�
1) the iTV should is not and should not have a harddrive, or any kind of computer capabilities? You say I�m comparing apples to oranges when I said my cable box has a harddrive, assuming I don�t know what a tuner is, when I was just saying a harddive is not that big a deal. And if it doesn�t have one that will be less of a reason to buy one.
2) �The bandwidth problem has already been addressed.�
Robin Chung
Mar 25, 04:29 PM
That's amazing! The hardware is moving so fast now, the gains are incredible. Hopefully many more ios developers will take some time to create amazing features like these.
Hilmi Hamidi
Feb 23, 09:26 AM
@iMark
Elegant setup. What speaker is that?
Elegant setup. What speaker is that?
DewGuy1999
Apr 10, 04:34 PM
When I learned to drive in the mid-70s we were taught on automatics in Driver's Ed, as far as I know there weren't any manual transmission cars as part of the program, but I think we were "taught" about them in the book portion of the class. I drove automatics from that point on.
Fast forward to the mid-80s and I was going to buy my first new car, an 1985-1/2 Ford Escort and since gas was at the astronomical price of $1.20-1.30 per gallon I wanted a manual transmission. I had a friend who had a 1985 Ford Escort so I asked him if he could give me a basic lesson, we spent about an hour one afternoon on the back streets with basically zero traffic, but I learned the basics.
Bought the new Escort and for my first real drive (I didn't test drive it) drove it back home from the Dealership approximately 15-miles, covering stop and go city traffic up to highway speeds of 55mph. I was a bit rough on takeoffs for the coming weeks, occasionally stalling it or lurching about, but I got better. Backing up took a while longer to get the idea of but that eventually came to me.
One funny memory I have of those early days, it that my wife (then girlfriend) and I were attempting to leave a local department store's parking lot. I always tried to use the less frequented exits and streets as I wasn't very good with takeoffs at first. To compound things this store's driveway went slightly uphill to the street. Oh-oh, I'm sure you can see where this story is going. Every time I tried to accelerate forward the car would start rolling backward, I didn't understand the friction point on the clutch yet, so I pulled up the parking brake to hold the car in place and told my wife, "when I say now release the parking brake", she did when I told her and I was able to get the car to move forward and out on to the street without rolling back into the car behind us. :)
I had that car for 12-years. It's the only manual transmission car that I've ever driven. I miss it. :(
Fast forward to the mid-80s and I was going to buy my first new car, an 1985-1/2 Ford Escort and since gas was at the astronomical price of $1.20-1.30 per gallon I wanted a manual transmission. I had a friend who had a 1985 Ford Escort so I asked him if he could give me a basic lesson, we spent about an hour one afternoon on the back streets with basically zero traffic, but I learned the basics.
Bought the new Escort and for my first real drive (I didn't test drive it) drove it back home from the Dealership approximately 15-miles, covering stop and go city traffic up to highway speeds of 55mph. I was a bit rough on takeoffs for the coming weeks, occasionally stalling it or lurching about, but I got better. Backing up took a while longer to get the idea of but that eventually came to me.
One funny memory I have of those early days, it that my wife (then girlfriend) and I were attempting to leave a local department store's parking lot. I always tried to use the less frequented exits and streets as I wasn't very good with takeoffs at first. To compound things this store's driveway went slightly uphill to the street. Oh-oh, I'm sure you can see where this story is going. Every time I tried to accelerate forward the car would start rolling backward, I didn't understand the friction point on the clutch yet, so I pulled up the parking brake to hold the car in place and told my wife, "when I say now release the parking brake", she did when I told her and I was able to get the car to move forward and out on to the street without rolling back into the car behind us. :)
I had that car for 12-years. It's the only manual transmission car that I've ever driven. I miss it. :(
mi5moav
Oct 23, 06:31 PM
Along with the macbook and MB pro getting updates, for $14.95 you can download an ipod nano or ipod patch/software that lets you listen to FM radio without having to purchase the radio remote. Interface is the same as with the remote.
Rocketman
Oct 23, 09:25 PM
I like the Macboo even though the label introduces a bunch of trademark infringement issues :)
So when the Merom MBP is released "soon", some say tonight, some say a week from tonight (confirming my prediction of "weeks" after iMac releases), this will be the equivalent of the Powerbook G6. As we all know the IBM G5 chip never made it into a Powerbook, but it is quite clear the Yonah MBP was such a leap forward it clearly earned the Powerbook G5 moniker at least in an underground and subversive way.
This release is a major chip advance and while we have yet to see if the motherboard keeps up with it (I doubt it), one might claim this is the Powerbook G6!
That should kill bandwidth on this site by about 70%!
I cannot wait till I have my entire environment on a large pocket sized full-screen iPod like device and do most of my work via 802.11n and 4G wireless. I might suggest a slightly larger screen and battery as a BTO option.
Rocketman
So when the Merom MBP is released "soon", some say tonight, some say a week from tonight (confirming my prediction of "weeks" after iMac releases), this will be the equivalent of the Powerbook G6. As we all know the IBM G5 chip never made it into a Powerbook, but it is quite clear the Yonah MBP was such a leap forward it clearly earned the Powerbook G5 moniker at least in an underground and subversive way.
This release is a major chip advance and while we have yet to see if the motherboard keeps up with it (I doubt it), one might claim this is the Powerbook G6!
That should kill bandwidth on this site by about 70%!
I cannot wait till I have my entire environment on a large pocket sized full-screen iPod like device and do most of my work via 802.11n and 4G wireless. I might suggest a slightly larger screen and battery as a BTO option.
Rocketman
Robot-Rock
May 2, 04:32 PM
This concept might seem alien to a lot of MacRumours users, but being a 'switcher', the method of deleting any app on OS X currently seems very ad hoc. I've been a mac user now for about 4 years and yet the idea of having to delete an app by dragging it to the trash seems very... strange. You never know if you've deleted ALL of that program.
Microsoft have managed to get one thing right in Windows. A specific tool (Add/Remove Programs) to delete a program. That's something that I genuinely feel is lacking in OS X and this idea of clicking and holding in LaunchPad makes sense. It's imple enough: most users who own an iPhone will have no trouble in adopting this method. And what's more, it makes it instantly accessible to anyone who uses a mac. In addition, it goes a step further than Microsoft. It avoids making more novice users from having to delve in to a complex window of settings. A step in the right direction? I think so!
So personally, I think this is a very simple yet very effective change to make to OS X and should be a welcome sign of the things to come in Lion!
Microsoft have managed to get one thing right in Windows. A specific tool (Add/Remove Programs) to delete a program. That's something that I genuinely feel is lacking in OS X and this idea of clicking and holding in LaunchPad makes sense. It's imple enough: most users who own an iPhone will have no trouble in adopting this method. And what's more, it makes it instantly accessible to anyone who uses a mac. In addition, it goes a step further than Microsoft. It avoids making more novice users from having to delve in to a complex window of settings. A step in the right direction? I think so!
So personally, I think this is a very simple yet very effective change to make to OS X and should be a welcome sign of the things to come in Lion!
mentaluproar
Mar 28, 02:21 AM
I think putting the map on the ipad is actually pretty poor idea. You would have to look away from the tv to see a map. This seems more like a last minute idea to put something, ANYTHING on the ipad's screen.
AFPoster
Mar 22, 01:10 PM
I don't believe you, that's my opinion.
I think thats why I said in the first sentence, "that's my opinion".
I think thats why I said in the first sentence, "that's my opinion".
Platform
Jul 15, 02:41 AM
Does anyone know whether the regular BluRay & HD-DVD players have HDMI connectors? Also, when is HDMI going to become more common on video cards?
Yes:
There is hardly any reason for the video cards to go with HDMI, they have DVI its the same, just HDMI carries audio as well, we don't need our audio mixed with our video processing ;)
Yes:
There is hardly any reason for the video cards to go with HDMI, they have DVI its the same, just HDMI carries audio as well, we don't need our audio mixed with our video processing ;)
usptact
May 3, 04:12 AM
And they will call this "revolution" and amazing feature which is worth $$$... classic and very usual from Apple.
DrFrankTM
Aug 25, 09:05 AM
I'd be shocked if we saw Merom based Minis before Merom based MBP and MB.. maybe a Core Duo upgrade, to hold us over? A price drop and high speed Yonah?
OR wishful thinking from someone who doesn't want his Core Duo Mini to seem old(even though its not)
Merom would be a good jump up for the Mini. I think it'd be cool if they offer it (even though I've had my Core Duo for just a couple of months :P), but I agree with you that we might simply see faster Yonah chips in the new Minis. One way or the other though, I'm happy the processor isn't soldered. When Merom drops in price, I'll grab the fastest thing I can put in my Mini. Chances are it will make it faster than whatever's the ultimate you can buy from Apple at that time. It's a fun time to be a Mini owner...
OR wishful thinking from someone who doesn't want his Core Duo Mini to seem old(even though its not)
Merom would be a good jump up for the Mini. I think it'd be cool if they offer it (even though I've had my Core Duo for just a couple of months :P), but I agree with you that we might simply see faster Yonah chips in the new Minis. One way or the other though, I'm happy the processor isn't soldered. When Merom drops in price, I'll grab the fastest thing I can put in my Mini. Chances are it will make it faster than whatever's the ultimate you can buy from Apple at that time. It's a fun time to be a Mini owner...
TelegraphRoad
Sep 14, 09:24 PM
I subscribed to their magazine for about 10 years. I bought into the whole thing ... raffle, website subscription, donations ... the whole bit. I finally got smart after being burned on riding mowers, washing machines, hotels, hand-held vacuums and most other crap. I religiously purchased their recommendations, except for cars since I worked in that business and they were too biased against some brands. I found their recommendations so unreliable, that I started shopping from the bottom of this. Anyway, I can't recommend them and perhaps we can get publicity for making that statement.
lordonuthin
Jan 26, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by SciFrog
Our PPD has dropped 20% from the peak, I lost a big unit this week due to a reboot, same old annoying problem...
Can't wait for Gulftown and GPU3...
I've lost 2 big units lately for the same reason, power loss & reboots and another one wasn't picked up in stats :confused:
yeah i've noticed the team has been down. again, i believe the less we chat on this forum, the less members will fold. right now, if one of our top users goes down, our whole team does basically.
i think we need to be more involved on here, and more people will fold.
sorry to hear you lost a big unit. yeah gulftown and gpu3 will be great!
It's hard to stay interested but it really doesn't take any effort to keep going. Maybe too many discover performance issues after they start and only have their main machine to fold with? Maybe as people get newer machines with multiple cores there will be fewer dropouts due to perfomance problems... which reminds me of one of my pet peeves - everyone talks about how not very many applications can take advantage of multi core machines - multiple aplications CAN take advantage of multiple cores... and thus performance is vastly improved when running many apps. my two cents - get as many cores as you can! :D
Our PPD has dropped 20% from the peak, I lost a big unit this week due to a reboot, same old annoying problem...
Can't wait for Gulftown and GPU3...
I've lost 2 big units lately for the same reason, power loss & reboots and another one wasn't picked up in stats :confused:
yeah i've noticed the team has been down. again, i believe the less we chat on this forum, the less members will fold. right now, if one of our top users goes down, our whole team does basically.
i think we need to be more involved on here, and more people will fold.
sorry to hear you lost a big unit. yeah gulftown and gpu3 will be great!
It's hard to stay interested but it really doesn't take any effort to keep going. Maybe too many discover performance issues after they start and only have their main machine to fold with? Maybe as people get newer machines with multiple cores there will be fewer dropouts due to perfomance problems... which reminds me of one of my pet peeves - everyone talks about how not very many applications can take advantage of multi core machines - multiple aplications CAN take advantage of multiple cores... and thus performance is vastly improved when running many apps. my two cents - get as many cores as you can! :D
AidenShaw
Aug 26, 10:16 AM
FX was used in the xServe, and they couldn't get dual-core CPU in there. As soon as they moved to woodcrest, they could replace that 2x G5 with 2x dual-core Woodcrests.
Says quite a bit about how hot they run....
Perhaps, but you can find the much hotter Xeon Netburst chips (much hotter than the 970 dual core) in 1U systems (and even blades) from other companies.
It wasn't that "the dual core 970 was too hot for a 1U", but that Apple decided against coming out with a dual-core Xserve. (Since they knew that Intel was coming, it might not have been worth the engineering changes needed for the dual core...)
Says quite a bit about how hot they run....
Perhaps, but you can find the much hotter Xeon Netburst chips (much hotter than the 970 dual core) in 1U systems (and even blades) from other companies.
It wasn't that "the dual core 970 was too hot for a 1U", but that Apple decided against coming out with a dual-core Xserve. (Since they knew that Intel was coming, it might not have been worth the engineering changes needed for the dual core...)
mltaylor
Mar 22, 10:03 AM
Can't please everybody. Someone will always be upset over something. This time people are upset, next time maybe I will be upset with something on the App Store. Deal with things people and move on.
Jonny1989
May 2, 08:12 PM
I still get updates for "Hands Off" even though ive deleted every file i can see relating to it. any help?
hopefully it removes every file
hopefully it removes every file
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