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  • myamid
    Sep 12, 06:21 PM
    I have seen this stated a few time - but not stated anywhere by apple.
    All I picked up form SJ was " we are pleased with the quality"

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  • AidenShaw
    Sep 26, 11:18 PM
    No I am not kidding. What option to buy a Quad? Clovertowns are Quads used in pairs to make 8-core OctoMacs not Quads. Clovertowns are scheduled to begin shipping in November. This is not news. It's been known for at least 3 months. Did you not see that thread?
    Yes, Intel will be shipping Clovertowns then - but when will Apple get around to putting them in systems? (November - well, that can wait for The Lord God Jobs' keynote in January, for sure.)

    Most vendors are putting Merom systems in their customers' hands, but Apple is still shipping Yonahs in the MacIntelBooks.

    I'm at IDF at Moscone, and most of the booths have Kentsfield or Clovertown systems running. (Apple isn't in the hall.)

    I think that you're being very brave in assuming that Apple will ship quads in systems when Intel releases them...

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  • Hellhammer
    Mar 13, 03:56 PM
    A large (think 100milesx100miles) solar array in death valley for example, could power the entire Continental US.

    The biggest wind farm in the world provides around 2MW/km^2. Your 100milesX100miles plant would only provide around 52 000MW (52GW) of power with same ratio. USA's power consumption in 2005 was 29PWh. I don't know how exactly this things can be converted but Fukushima I has installed power of 4.7GW and provides 25.8GWh each year while the biggest wind farm has installed capacity of 781MW. The plant you described would be around 10 times more powerful than the Fukushima but even then, it could provide around 250GWh which is a fraction of 29PWh.

    Solar plants are better (80MW/km^2) but 10PWh is still far from 29PWh.

    If someone knows how to convert these things properly or has more info on this, please educate me/us.

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    Sep 28, 04:59 AM
    Surprised to see this thread come to a grinding hault after only 145 posts. I pledge right here and now to be one of the first to buy a NEW 8-core Dual Clovertown Mac Pro as soon as it becomes available. I will not wait for them to go refrub although I will probably wait for them to come with iLife '07 if they are added to the BTO page before the January 9th SteveNote.

    I turn 60 on January 12th. :) Happy Birthday to me it will be. :eek: :D

    Okay, I will jump onboard and be the second.

    Clovertown Power -- bring it on.


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  • Spectrum
    Aug 29, 01:01 PM
    Funny, I thought all people had "the right" to believe anything they liked. When did you gain the right to be so imperious and condescending towards others just because their opinion doesn't agree with their own?
    People with selfish views harm ALL other people and the planet. By contrast, people with selfless views only harm those with selfish views. Thus, the fewer are the selfish, the better the world will become for the majority of the people.

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  • Mattie Num Nums
    Apr 15, 01:20 PM
    We're placing more importance on the bullying of gays because of the historical and widespread discrimination, hatred, and violence that gays have had to endure (and still endure) that obese people have not. We discussed this 8 pages ago.

    So let me get this straight.

    Fat people are CONSTANTLY harassed but because the media doesn't report on every fat persons suicide or pain we are now directing to to the Gay community because the media jumps on it. I find this absolutely trash. How about we do something about suicide in America period. Soldiers killing themselves, teens killing themselves over Facebook.

    Refers back to my previous post, the Gay community needs to stop singling themselves out.

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  • Mousse
    Apr 25, 06:14 PM
    Part of the problem is that God has always been a terrible communicator. ;)

    Nope. Unlike Captain Kirk. God is a firm believer in the Prime Directive (

    Anyhow, back on topic as why I'm religious? I don't see the need to reinvent the wheel. There's already someone who has perfected the moral system: Jesus. His moral system, IMO, is the best one. It's a hard system to follow, but if--big IF... no HUGE @$$ IF--everyone can follow that system of morals, the world would be a lot better place.

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  • edifyingGerbil
    Apr 23, 01:25 PM
    I haven't seen that in my experience. Most atheists put a great deal of deliberative thought into their position. "Casual" atheists are more commonly, in my experience, agnostics with a poor vocabulary. In fact, the very idea of holding a position without substantiation is an anathema to what atheists hold above all else: the triumph of reason over "intuition."

    I realize the capricious nature of something like this since people are free to label themselves however they please. However, I think you'll find that those who affirmatively state what they don't believe will have a thought out answer, much like the self-described atheists in this thread. Granted there are some who have a reduced grasp of science and the scientific method, but that's no different than a Catholic who has doesn't know the Eighth Commandment. There are always going to be better prepared members of any sub-group.

    I also don't think there is an atheist who isn't challenged all the time about their beliefs. People (especially in the US) have a deep distrust of atheists and it isn't something people usually wear on their sleeves; it's a scarlet letter that always needs to be "justified."

    I'm not even sure you can use pure reason to establish any deity. What would be the logical construction of that argument?

    I don't think many people say they're Catholic to fit in or be trendy... Maybe Jewish, but definitely not Catholic.

    I've concluded American Atheists who are continually challenged on their beliefs and "surrounded by enemies" are more likely to read into atheism and all it entails, rather like a convert to a religion knows the religion better than people who were born into it. Europe is very secular, compared to the US at least, and thus a lot of people are "born into" atheism/secularism.

    You can use pure reason, that's what many of the early church fathers did to try and prove God's existence, via the various famous arguments, and of course later philosophers too. Sometimes the nature of God changes to help him fit into a scheme, like Spinoza's pantheism where he argues God and nature are one and the same, and we exist in God as we exist in nature. For Spinoza God is like a force rather than a sentient being.

    A lot of people seem to entertain this notion that theists don't use any sort of logic or reason to ground their faith but they do. God has to fit a framework (the Judaeo-Christian God, not the God of islam which the qur'an itself says is arbitrary and unknowable because it can do whatever it wants). The problem is that faith is required to take those extra few steps into fully fledged belief because there can't, at the moment, be any conclusive proof one way or another (although theists are getting more clever and appropriating physical principles to try and help them explain God, such as Entropy and thermodynamics).

    If someone told us a hundred or so years ago that photons can communicate with one another despite being thousands of miles apart we would call that supernatural, but as time goes on the goal posts are moved ever further.

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  • TheRealTVGuy
    Mar 18, 01:41 AM
    Option 3; STOP trying to cheat the system, and START using your iDevice the way the manufacturer designed it and the way your carrier supports it. (Is it unfair? YES! Are all of us iPhone users getting hosed, even though there's now two carriers? YES)

    And while you're at it, knock off the piracy with the napster/limewire/torrent crap.

    (Yeah, I said it! SOMEBODY had to!)

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  • jefhatfield
    Oct 12, 12:47 PM
    Originally posted by MacCoaster

    Believe me, a lot of people do. Thanks to my UNIX knowledge, I am so much more productive in Linux/BSD on a PC than a Mac. For beginners to computers, sure Macs could be much more productive.

    We were just discussing the G4--it was never intended to be an explict vs war between Mac and PCs. It's not a software thread. It's a frickin' hardware thread where we are discussing the inferiority of the G4.

    Research scientists should think twice before using a Mac for research--since the G4 blows so much. That's where it matters. It's faster for them to use PCs than Macs. Gee, by 100 seconds. Think about it... a lot of scientific formulas are a lot more complex than our simplistic benchmark programs--100 minutes is sure much longer than 5 minutes.

    too many of those programs are only on pcs

    one research scientist my wife works with started coding in dos on the mac compiler and if he succeeded in getting into the server, which would not happen anyway, he would have caused major damage

    this phd had no idea that the g4 and the mac os was not dos...he was sure everything was dos like his windows 98 box he and all the other research scientists use

    the sas program they have only works on 95 and 98:p

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  • I'mAMac
    Aug 29, 04:29 PM
    My point is that Greenpeace would be far better served educating the public how to help. They get even 10% of the world's population to make some radical changes in their lives and the changes to the planet would be amazing.

    I agree corporations need to set examples and do teh best they can. I don't think its where environmentalists should be pointing fingers.

    You , me and everyone else are the biggest polluters.
    right. why don't they invent something that doesnt pollute so we can all use it. (yeah right)

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  • JackAxe
    Sep 26, 08:04 PM
    Bernard was going to be my 2nd guess. :rolleyes:

    I'm Platinum Member, it's seems with all the upgrades it's cheaper in the end. I'm going to have to slow down and take a look at 8.

    *LOL* :D

    If 3D were my primary income, I would invest in their maintance plan, but as is, that's money I need for other upgrades. Maybe in the future.

    Hope all goes well with 8. I won't be there for probably a year.


    Apple should put much needed development into the notebooks. The current crop of Mac Pros are perfect.

    Let software catch up!

    Speak for yourself. ;)

    I certainly hope Apple is working on a pen book for this fall. A version with an upgraded Wacom digitizer that at least supports tilt. Preferably a version with full Intuous 3 specs. The PC versions are all stuck in the Artz II days.


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  • danielwsmithee
    Apr 15, 10:01 AM
    Bullying is an epidemic much like family violence, spousal abuse, child abuse etc, they are all gifts that keep on giving ... most of the bullies out there are suffering their own self esteem problems and have often been bullied, abused or neglected themselves.

    I once held extreme hatred for a particular bully at my school. Then many of the details of his family life showed up in the local paper. It changed my perspective a little.

    If people really want to stop or limit bullying we need to extend friendship to all both the bullies and the bullied and make it clear which behaviors are not appropriate.

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  • Peace
    Sep 20, 06:09 PM
    Well said. This product will NOT sell (after the initial "craze") if there is no DVR functionality. People (general mass of people not macrumors folk) are not ready to pay for individual TV shows. People love DVRs because they can record, watch later and skip commercials.

    In the future when Apple has such a stronghold on the cable industry that companies are forced to move to a pay-per-channel (a-la-carte) system, then sure, but not right now.

    DVR is where it is at for the moment. Apple is going to miss the boat. Apple having an iTV does not make me want to buy TV shows. It simply makes me not want to buy an iTV.

    And I guess this is why Disney sold 125,000 movies the first week and Apple has sold millions of TV shows right?*

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  • speedriff
    Feb 17, 06:51 AM
    So what is your job at Apple? The problem with Apple (trust me I love their products) is that they don't care what their customers want concerning wireless products. They seem to only change when they might lose marketshare. If you call that good business then I suggest a history lesson of Japanese business practices. They see a company that is succsessful but isn't giving customers what they want, they fill that demand and walk away (eventually) with all the marketshare. One only has to look at Cars, motorcycles, televisions etc. to see it. I am starting to think Steve Jobs is a douche for more reasons than flash. I am always reading articles about him having a little tantrum and banning this or that because someone made him mad. Grow up Steve and give your LOYAL customers what they want or we will go elsewhere when a viable alternative arrives. Don't fall into the, "The bigger they are the harder they fall" category. As for Flash, it may be a little buggy so let me download it at me own risk. Sorry, but Flash is everywhere and I am tired of not being able to view it. Someday that won't be the case but until then...let me have it. I'm going to spend $800 on an iPad when I can't view Flash content? Really? Sorry, not me. I will just stick with my trusty notebook.:apple:

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  • bugfaceuk
    Apr 9, 09:26 AM
    Heh, you put "REAL" in caps. :p

    If you don't believe me, there's plenty of history to read. Just go look at the following industries that were disrupted by technology...

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  • Speedy2
    Oct 7, 04:09 PM
    And of those 85k apps how many of them are not crap...

    I think saying 1k is being very generous. Most of the apps are pretty crappy and useless.

    Who cares what you think? You will find high quality apps for pretty much anything you can think of in the App Store. You won't find quality apps for everything in Google's, Microsoft's, RIMM's, Nokia's etc App store. That's the only thing that counts.

    And your "argument" that it is oh-so-impossible to get iPhone Apps approved is ridiculed by the sheer number of Apps and the fact that the number is constantly growing.

    I read reports that over 60% of all apps turn into apple are getting rejected with little help on why.

    Source please.

    A lot of the best apps for the iPhone out there are currently only available for Jail broken phones only.

    Utter nonsense. Name "a lot" please!
    You can't really make decent money with jailbroken apps. Tell me how on earth "a lot of the best" would ONLY be available outside the App store?

    How many iPhones with OS >=2.0 are jailbroken in the first place?

    That should tell you something.

    Yeah it tells us that you're making stuff up and have a very warped idea of the facts.

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  • *LTD*
    Apr 28, 08:05 AM
    Then they should include it in such #'s when it WILL be one not while it's not don't you think?

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  • AidenShaw
    Sep 23, 04:33 PM
    I am not sure how far along Apple is on 802.11n but it seems to me if they are going to require it they better start putting it in computers soon.

    I know I would be pissed if I bought a computer and then had the iTv come out a month or two later and I owned an out of date computer already.

    The long-awaited next-generation Wi-Fi standard has been delayed again and won't likely be ratified until sometime in 2008. (

    Craig Mathias, an analyst at Farpoint Group, said it's unlikely that these draft 802.11n products will comply with the eventual standard once it's completed.

    He doesn't believe that these products will be able to be upgraded to the standard either.

    Oct 29, 11:30 AM
    i wouldnt truly worry about that till it happens. one thing i have learned over the years is that roadmaps never hold up. if they had, we'd all be running dual core 6GHZ G5 or G6 right now, with 10GHZ in production readying themselves for 2007. Intel would have a oentium 5 or something out or their 64 bit itanium with consumes 200W of power. just a year ago, we had laptops with pentium M that wre as fast or faster than pentium 4's. who knows where we'll be in a year or 2 from now. i wont worry about laptop performance until we are behind, not what some roadmap says. years ago clock speed was all the rage, today its multiple cores. what will it be tomorrow? who knows.

    Exactly. Roadmaps are just projections based on what current technology and market trends seem to indicate. Back when Intel and AMD were both deadlocked in the MHz race and were pushing to break the 2GHz barrier, we were hearing claims of 4GHz within a year and 10GHz by '07. Well, '07 is almost here and 4GHz is still just a pipedream in most situations and not something we see without overclocking and aftermarket cooling options. The only thing that we can rely on is that both AMD and Intel have become quite reliable when they officially announce a product is in development and production and they are usually good about when it will arrive and what it will do. Often only missing a release by a matter of a few days to a week or two, even though it was announced nearly 8 months or more in advance. But upcoming products on their roadmap mean little. Nehalem may not even happen... There's been several tentative chip products over the years that appear on a roadmap, only to be replaced by something else later. I think at this point, all those future entries on the roadmap mean is that it's something being investigated. There could be a significant breakthrough tomorrow in nanotech that allows for 28um production industry-wide within the next two years and then you can bet that Intel, AMD and IBM will throw their current roadmaps out the window. So it means nada until they officially start development and testing on a new product...

    Apr 22, 09:48 PM
    I don't believe in God. To me, I haven't seen anything to convince me of his existence and it just seems way too convenient of a way to explain away difficult questions. I also don't think that religion would add anything to my life - it's just not an issue for me, I don't even think about it until asked.

    I am interested in this thread, just because I am not used to people questioning my viewpoint, or even really caring about how big the atheist population is. In the UK, it just doesn't seem that the issue is that important.

    Is this a bigger issue in the US, and do atheists abroad feel pressure to at least consider the idea of a God?

    Apr 10, 12:25 PM
    Trying to use a finger controlled touch screen as the new answer to everything, and young people thinking this is right, in a way reminds me of being at work.

    No one is saying it is best for everything.

    What I am saying is that while it may not be as good as actual buttons, it is still fun even with the virtual joysticks. And honestly, when we're talking handheld games, you already are compromising ease of control for that portability. I've never had a handheld game system that was as ergonomic as a dedicated controller on a console system.

    You make compromises for that portability (smaller screen, not as powerful hardware, form of the controller is dictated by the fact it has to accommodate a screen). Of the things I listed right there, the hardware is the one most likely that they can maybe stop compromising on but the other stuff is going to get sacrificed for having a small, all in one, handheld system.

    Look, I know what you are saying. I completely agree (I use the same argument why a touchscreen keyboard will not replace an actual physical keyboard. Just cause it is newer tech does not make it better).

    But what some of us are saying is that for the advantages (Some of which really have nothing to do with the touchscreen really, like the cheap prices of games on the iphone), the compromise is worth it. I have played games that I will fully agree buttons would be better. But for the fact that I have these games on my iphone that is with me everywhere and is more portable than any of the handhelds I've seen and are cheaper plus I don't have to take a whole bunch of cartridges to have all my games with me, the compromise is worth it. And the virtual joystick and buttons don't ruin my enjoyment of the game (but I agree buttons would make it better).

    May 6, 08:56 PM
    Hopefully someone at ATT will read these posts! In the same boat, last 3-4 weeks been getting worse in R.I.

    Sep 12, 06:25 PM
    I am dying to see what this thing looks like. Does anyone have an image of it?


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